Saturday 10th October

[adesmith]

A beautiful morning in South Wales. Autumn sun and mist hanging over the river, right up the valley towards Wentwood and Usk. A bit disconcerting to see a boat floating up the river with no one in it and I hope that no one started out in it! I suspect it broke away from its moorings in Newport as the tide was lower than when we normally expect to see boats navigating the river. Went to a very interesting lecture about Crusader Castles and Churches in the Holy Land and another about the Battle of Crecy. Unfortunately the guy doing the talk about the Battle of Crecy decided that the whole hall of people had to re-enact the battle and by virtue of the fact that I was the youngest there by about 20 years (usually the case at these antiquarian talks!) I had to take the part of the Black Prince. It was okay until he got to the bit where the prince was knocked down and the man tried to push me over! Apparetly my face was a picture. Anyway I hope this lovely weather is being enjoyed by all of you as well?

Adrian

[gloria townsin]

Sounds like a dangerous lecture Adrian - look carefully at the title of the next one you attend, you don't need to have anything worse done to you!!:girl_wacko:

[adesmith]

Gosh yes, I should be careful! I think there is a talk coming up soon at the Roman Legionary Museum called 'The Witches of the Dubonii Tribe'. Maybe I should think twice about that one. :butcher:

[jane jackson]

All sounds very dangerous to me ~ you could end up in a witches cauldron,

Glorious day here. Have been to Dartmoor to take Bryan and a friend to their Coastwatch Area Meeting. I went on to a friend at Moretonhampstead and walked the dogs in her fields then we drove across the moorland roads to Widecombe-in-the-Moor to meet another friend and have a pub lunch. All very pleasant but am now a bit tired as the journey was 2 hours each way with the sun very low and strong for the last hour in places. The roads were beautifully quiet apart from around Plymouth and it's really lovely driving over the bridge over the Tamar.

Adrian I used to live in Berkhamsted in Herts and the Black Prince was supposed to have lived in Berkhamsted Castle. It's a ruin now but the moat is still there.

The sky is really lovely now looking out of the upstairs window where the computer is (Kath knows) I should drive over to Lands End or Sennen to watch the sunset but haven't the energy.:yawn::yawn:

[Barbara]

Jane, I love to hear of your travels around Cornwall...you really make the most of your surroundings. Imagine just being able to pop over to Lands End and watch the sunset...sounds so special.
Adrian, glad to hear you are finding many and varied ways to "experience" history. I do admire the way Britain is so conscious of its history and strives to keep it alive in people's minds. And there is still so much architecture from various historical periods to remind people of the way it was.
We are such a "new" country, that if something goes back two hundred years it is considered really old. I have noticed, however that we seem to be opting to pull down those buildings that would be regarded as historic and replace them with modern buildings. I remember in the eighties that our capital city, Perth, underwent just such a transformation. One of the entrances to the city was a grand sweep of road called St Georges Terrace. It used to be lined with fine "Federation" buildings...but they pulled them all down and replaced them with skyscrapers of glass and steel.
Bunbury barely has anything left of its heritage...such a shame, although Albany, further south, has managed to retain many of its fine historical buildings.

Barb :wave:

[adesmith]

Thats interesting Jane. I think I will have a bit of a look into the Black Prince.

Barbara, we are lucky to have so much history around us in Britain and I think as a nation (whatever the Daily Mail says) we are very aware of our history. I remember when I went to America and we visited Mount Vernon where George Washington lived. As we walked around the house the guide kept saying that this was 200 or 300 years old and every time he did the Americans gasped and were amazed - we were decidedly unimpressed (although the house and its associations with Washington were fascinating). If I look straight out of my study window, across the river is Lodge Hill, an Iron Age Hill Fort. If I look to the right up the river I can see Caerleon (The Fortress of the Legions), a village with lots of Roman remains including an amphitheatre. To the left is Newport with the now small remains of its castle and a very historic cathedral. I have done a bit of research and discovered that 2 mins walk up our road, on the site of a relatively new group of flats, once stood St Julians House. A manor house that Oliver Cromwell threatened to burn down because of its treasonable inhabitants. The house was built on the site of St Julians Chapel which marked the martyrdom of St Julian, one of the first three Christian martyrs in Britain (he and Aaron were Roman soldiers martyred at Caerleon). So yes we are surrounded by our history! Sadly what you said about old buildings being demolished happened in Britain in the 1960s. Thankfully now there is much more of an effort to preserve historic buildings and 'standing archaeology'.

[Barbara]

I think you are particularly lucky, Adrian, because you have an interest in history and there is so much to chose from.
I have often looked at pictures in books of very old churches and stone walls and the first thing that comes to mind is a thought for the person who laid the stone...so long ago , but the stone is still there.
I have mentioned in another post that we used to live on the southern coast in Albany. Albany was one of the first settlements in Western Australia, and for a while vied with Perth for the site of the main settlement. My mother ran a guesthouse there. The guesthouse was one of the original "big houses" built by a prominent settler back in the early 1800's. At the back of the house was a building that we used to refer to as the stables. but it was really the original dwelling and I have read the it was the first brick building erected in Western Australia. We also had a huge oak tree in the back garden that was said to be the first English oak planted in W.A.
I was just a teenager when we lived there and hadn't yet developed my love of history. I sometimes regret that I wasn't a bit older as I think I would have appreciated the history of the building much more. It was very English with wonderful windy staircases, very thick walls and I remember it apparently had a small chapel built at the top of the house, although the entrance to it had been bricked up by the time we were living there. The house stood on a terrace overlooking Princess Royal Harbour, which is a most spectacular natural harbour. If we stood upstairs we had the most gorgeous view.

[gloria townsin]

Speaking of wrecking old towns - I wonder if Jane remembers Rickmansworth High Street before they pulled down The Swan, an old coaching inn built either side of the carriage driveway. The old pub that Swannell and Sly, estate agents, used for their offices and the auction room at the back, the old Odeon Cinema, where I used to go to Saturday morning pictures (now the dentists I'm going to) which closed down years and years ago. The flea pit cinema at the end of the town, also long since gone. The Tree restuarant and The Tree Pub in Station Road......I could go on and on.....one of those "don't know what to do to earn my money - Friday afternoon ideas" that got rushed through and down they all came, result the heart ripped out of Rickmansworth. Enough ranting but my bet is the people responsible neither lived in Ricky or had any care for those who did and do.

Love Widecome-in-the-Moor......in fact the whole area.

[jane jackson]

I don't remember much about Ricky Gloria as I only worked in Lloyds Bank there for one month in 1977 before moving to Chorleywood where I stayed until 1991 but Watford certainly pulled down lots of lovely old buildings in the 60s and 70s. I used to be driving into work in my old Land Rover when they were constructing the ring road and that was a real pain and very slow going with no radio in the vehicle!

Barbara your mother's guesthouse sounded lovely with a wonderful view.

[adesmith]

That really does sound like the most wonderful house Barbara and really interesting. I Feel the same as what you said about the first stone etc. When we go into an old church I cant help but think about all of the thousands of people that have worshipped there through the generations. I like it when we visit an old castle to stand and look out of one of the windows and think who else had looked through it, what did they see and what were they thinking. Have you ever been to the UK? I think the history of the first settlers in Australia sounds really interesting.

Talking of conservation. What do people think about the plans for Penzance Harbour? I heard about it about a year ago and at the time didnt think much about it. However I saw it on the news yesterday and I am a little concerned. I know that there has to be progress but I really do love that little corner of Penzance and the harbour really does have a special character of its own. we enjoy walking around the back of the war memorial and the Jubilee Pool and looking out across Mounts Bay. Worst of all I read that they might have to demolish or relocate the Waterside Meadery which is a regular haunt of ours (to the point that the staff know us and give us the same table that we like etc). Jane I am sure that you probably know more about this than I do.

[Barbara]

No I haven't ever visited the U.K., Adrian, but I'm sure I'll get there one day. I find so many different aspects of it inspiring.
Funnily enough, one of the most interesting essays I ever did was on the public health and sanitary reforms in England at the beginning of last century. I'm particularly interested in social history and was thoroughly fascinated by the conditions that the Industrial Revolution forced on the common man. I learned lots about drainage and sewers, typhoid and effluvia...sounds like a fun topic,doesn't it....but really it was so interesting.
Another essay I did was about the reasons why England set up a colony in Australia. Of course, it did solve the problem of housing all those British convicts on ships in England. However, I believe one of the main reasons was strategic. Australia provided an excellent base in this region for all the whaling vessels and other merchant ships..close proximity to the Spice Islands, and Pacific islands where flax abounded, which was very important for the making of sails.
Oh gosh, I am rambling on a bit, will stop now, but nice to talk to someone with similar interests.

Barb http://www.friendsofminack.org.uk/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[gloria townsin]

I could say "snap, snap and snap" re the first paragraph of your post Adrian. I'm a 'wonder who's walked these paths before' person. Mullion Church has some extremely old pews with heavy carving, so many people will have used them and seen them. There's a postcard which shows Trewoon Road further down towards the tiny bit that is Trewoon itself. It's a picture of children and ladies in the 1800's by the cottage that's still there. I imagine them with farmworker, fishermen or miner husbands, little in the way of transport and a close community. It's easy to romantisies it but I expect their lives were pretty hard.

Haven't heard about changes to Penzance, hope they're not too radical.

[Barbara]

Just picking up on Gloria's reference to the old picture of cottagers in the 1800's.
I have an autobiography by A. L. Rowse which is titled, "A Cornish Childhood" which I've had for ages but haven't read. I picked in up second-hand and put it away for future reference. Just dug it out recently after coming on the forum.
Looking through, it seems to have lots of insights into ordinary village life before the Great War in Cornwall. He makes use of a note-book that he kept of stories from his father so gives an idea of village life back to the 1860's. He also uses his own schoolboy diaries so should have plenty of different perspectives.

Barb

[Kath Mulligan]

I could say "snap, snap and snap" re the first paragraph of your post Adrian. I'm a 'wonder who's walked these paths before' person.



Me too. As I have probably said on here before, I didn't enjoy history lessons at school - far too much about kings and battles and dates for my liking, but I do love to stand in an old church or castle and imagine the daily lives of the people who have gone before me. I also marvel at the skills the old craftsmen and builders had to create these masterpieces without the aid of all the modern technology and machinery that we have today.

I have a really interesting book called Lost Cornwall by Joanna Thomas that Elizabeth bought me for Christmas last year. It has chapters dealing with Rural Life, the Free Traders, the fishing and mining industries and the Newlyn School of Painters amongst others. It also has lots of black and white photographs of shops and scenes around Cornwall and it's fun to try to spot what has changed today and what remains almost the same.

Kath

[adesmith]

Ramble away Barbara. I think the peole on here are used to my historical ramblings by now. I am teaching my Year 9 pupils about sewers and sanitation etc at the moment. I am afraid that the Industrial Revolution is not my favourite time period but it is an important one.

I too enjoy social history and I think that is where my archaeological interests come from. History used to be defined as events, causes, consequences etc and archaeology was about people. Its funny but the events that we learn about were only one part of someones life and many of the 'big' events meant little to the people at the time unless they were caught up in it. There is an unseen history of the day to day that is so fascinating.

Gloria, dont you just wish that those photographs could speak (Harry Potter style?) and tell us their stories. Life was very hard then and I am sure especially so in Cornwall. I am very interested in the mining history and that must have been a very tough existence, not just for the miners but for the women working on the surface as well.

Will have to look out for the books. I have heard of A L Rowse and I will look out for Lost Cornwall.

[jane jackson]

Penzance Harbour - oh dear, how long have you got?!

It's all to do with the Scillonian and the Gry Marythe (can't remember the spelling) being replaced eventually with the one larger boat and improving facilities for passengers and dealing with the freight. The official line is to fill in the beach at Battery Rocks and build a passenger/freight terminal thereabouts. The PZ Harbour Users Assn prefer other options like using Albert Pier and having freight held at Long Rock which would be brought to the harbour in containers so reducing the number of delivery vehicles which cause congestion. I'll ask Bryan for a website as he's been delivering leaflets for the PZ Harbour Users Assn and we're about to write to MPs etc.

It's all very complicated with various options proposed but officialdom doesn't seem to want to know anything other than their choice. There was a meeting in St Johns Hall on friday evening which is why you probably heard about it Adrian. It was full with 500 people so the interest is there.

There have been lots of threats of taking the Scillonian to Falmouth but most commentators in The Cornishman seem to think that's just blackmail and to frighten locals from objecting.

There's also a problem of possibly losing grant money if a decision isn't made soon.

[gloria townsin]

I've read A.L. Rowse 'A Cornish Childhood' and I'm pretty sure he met Derek at some time. Not sure where I picked this up though.

His book is full of times past and how he related to his family.....at times he seems to conflict with various aspects of his family life and upbringing but then I guess that's true of a lot of people. It's a long read and only one of several books he wrote, although I think it's the only one about his Cornish upbringing.

I've re read several Chronicles this last few months, 'The Way to Minack' being the current one. With each one I wonder more and more why they haven't been re-printed. They are relevant to so many things that people seek today, a get away from it lifestyle, self sufficiency, animal orientated and day to day stories of living. I can't help but feel if more people had the chance of reading them they would be every bit as popular as they once were.

Visiting the bookshop in Falmouth a few weeks ago I found it difficult to find a book about a Cornish way of living, plenty of beautiful photo books and 'where to visit' but little in the way of real life. 'The Great Western Beach' which I mentioned a while back is good and I have another which is about letters written during the Great War by a lady from her home along the coast from Looe, will get it out and name it - haven't got round to reading it yet. It's lovely to see photo's but I do love to read how people lived in those villages and towns.

[gloria townsin]

Interesting info Barbara and Adrian. Love history, although no good at dates. Re the photo of the children and ladies in Trewoon Road, I have often thought, wonder what they did once the photo was taken, they would have been talking and going on their way.......a Harry Potter moment would be wonderful.

[jane jackson]

Adrian the following website might be of interest and give more info for anyone who would like to know more about the PZ Harbour improvements being put forward:

www.friendsofpzharbour.org (http://www.friendsofpzharbour.org)



There's probably another official site too but this is the one I know of.

[adesmith]

Thanks Jane. I have had a look at the website and signed up for the newsletter. It seems such a shame that we may lose that little corner of Battery Rocks. We have often thought that they should make a bit more of that area (sympathetically of course) and have spent so many evenings walking around by the boats, sitting on the harbour wall and as I already said walking on that little path around the Jubilee Pool. That little corner does seem to have a character of its own and feels historic (I dont actually know about the history of the area) There are always tourists looking around at the Pirate Ship and the Shell Shop etc. I would hate Penzance to become 'spoilt' by becoming too 'touristy' but I think they could do more. It was a shame when they closed the Trinity House Museum. Which is the Albert Pier? Is it the one that the Scillonian goes from now? Lets hope that the people in charge listen to what people think and make a sensible choice.

[jane jackson]

Scillonian goes from South Pier and the Albert Pier is the bus station end where the sailing club have their building. If I'm right the Battery Rocks area is supposed to be the Holy Headland as in Pen Sans where Penzance got its name from.

[adesmith]

I think you are right Jane because I saw a 'Save the Holy Headland' poster last autumn and that is where I first heard about the plans. Thanks for explaining which pier is which. I think the Albert Pier would be a better option just because it would leave the harbour area intact. I dont know what the sailing club would think though! I guess we have to be realistic about progress and the Scillonian is rather small, even just for the passengers. There wasnt a lot of space on it when we went for a day trip and the facilities on board are quite limited (food etc) for what is actually a fairly lengthy journey. I do hope that they dont do anything to the Waterside Meadery, it really is a favourite eating destination of ours (should I really be admitting this?). I dont know what I would do without some 'Chicken in the Rough', chips and a glass of mead!